Good Pictures vs. Bad Pictures

By tomnorth
5
written 5/31/06 5:49 PM, published 5/31/06 5:49 PM
I'm going to step way out on a limb here, but I think the quality of photos being posted lately needs a lot of improvement. So, I decided to post some random advice on creating exciting and interesting images. Much of this advice I picked up from a National Geographic photographer (Joel Sartore).
  1. If it's boring, don't shoot it.  Most of the time the answer is no (a Joel-ism).
  2. Compose your picture from the background forward (Joel-ism).
  3. Expose for the brightest part of the frame that you want to see detail on.  For example, many times the sky is the brightest part of the frame for a landscape. Expose for the sky (not the sun).  As Joel says, the sky is the boss.  Conversely, if your frame includes a reflection of the sun, don't expose for that as it won't matter how much you stop down, it will still be burned out.  This piece of advice made a huge difference in my own images.
  4. Focus on your subject.  This may seem like a no-brainer, but I'm seeing lots of shots where the subject is out of focus.
  5. Don't have out of focus distractions in the foreground.  That is unless the out-of-focus items in the foreground are an essential part of your composition.  I remember one neat image lately where out-of-focus tallgrass blowing in the wind created a veil-like curtain in front of the subject.  In most cases though, either get it in focus or get it out of the frame.
  6. Use near/far perspective on landscapes to give perspective, just make sure the near objects are in focus.
  7. Edit ruthlessly.  If you post 20 pictures don't be surprised if people get scared away.  Sift them down to the ones you think are best and then be open to feedback.  You'll get more worthwhile feedback and you'll create goodwill with your mates.
  8. Good light is good and bad light is bad (Joel-ism). Meaning? The good light with lots of warmth is early in the day and late in the day.  Also, cloudy days can give nice, even lighting.  If you're tempted to shoot in bad light, don't.  Come back later in good light or create good light by somehow diffusing the harsh light.
  9. Compose, compose and compose.  Don't just assume you're going to be able to crop later in PS.  Take your time and compose in the viewfinder.  If what you're seeing isn't working, either make it work or don't shoot the picture.  Again, most of the times the answer is no.
  10. Know what your subject is.  Again, another no-brainer, but there are a lot of images being posted where it's not clear.
  11. Give people paths to wander in your image.  By that I mean be conscious of layers and the path the viewers' eyes may follow through your image.
  12. Make your image something interesting.  That includes picking a subject matter that is not the same as what everybody else is doing.  It feels as if Photographica is becoming the flower picture site of the Web.  If it's an incredibly beautiful flower shot then great, post away.  But if it's a garden variety flower shot (pardon the play on words) why not leave the posting space for someone else with something different to show.
I know I'm opening myself up to tons of criticism with this posting.  But, I felt that rather than find myself drifting away from Photographica I ought to at least take a shot at offering some constructive feedback in the interest of making it better.

I'll be the first one to admit that I'm not a great photographer.  I'm sure you'll be able to look at my images and find a number of them where I've violated the advice I posted above.  But, I hope that doesn't cause you to dismiss it.  After all, it's not my original thinking but rather advice that I've soaked up from some really great photographers.

Also, I've tried to stay away from rules, like the rule of thirds.  We know the saying about rules and I don't hold to them that strongly.  Finally, this is not meant to be an exhaustive list of advice on taking interesting images.  It's just the random thoughts that have popped into my head as I've been composing this posting.  I'm sure that the moment I hit the Submit button I'll think of something else.  You'll probably want to add your own items as well.

Anyway, please don't anyone take this as a slight.  I truly love this site and want to see it get better.  I'm just a bit distraught that we're not posting as high a level of images here lately.  When I see the numbers online seeming to drop I worry that the quality of images might be part of the reason.

Let's all do our part to make this the best site possible.  There are a lot of great photographers here who could add lots of items to this list.

Okay, fire at will!



 
  • This was posted to the Q&A section, so could one of the editors please remove it from the front page? Thanks, Tom

    - One size does not fit all

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  • wilk
    5
    Tom, thanks for the good advice; it reminds me that I should be more intentional in my own shooting.

    -      Oh Shoot

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  • I'm so glad you made this point Tom. I had been disturbed by the quality of images lately--including my own. Posting something that is out of focus makes me insane and I think we should be better than that. I'm printing out this list for me and hope others will as well. Thanks for being the tough guy!

    - blow.....hard

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  • I think it is great that you take the time to try to help people with their shots, I know they will help me, Thank you!

    - Spring is in the air

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  • Wildman
    4
    Great post Tom!!! I agree! Some people need to post like it's an addiction. Let's make this site the best! Post only your best stuff!

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  • some very valid points there tom and great pointers for a new amateur like me!! being new to the site i did notice the flower festival! but then it's a personal thing right? Thanks Jerry

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  • Lidljo
    5
    Thanks for the advice, I will try to take heed of some of it. Personally though it was some of the nature pictures, especially plants, that drew me to photographica. I have felt like I have really stretched with each theme or challenge and hope to continue growing.

    - Flowers are happiness...

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  • Birdie
    4
    I don't think that anyone should be offended by your post. You are sharing valuable information. I 've tried to force shots knowing that the lighting is wrong or just keep taking shots because what I see isn't coming out in the photo I'm trying for and it gets very frustrating. I recently have tried hard not to do that and walk away from the shot when it's not working. I think that sometimes we get caught up in sharing photos due to the personal attachment we might have to it even if it's not a great shot and I will try to be more careful about that as well. Another fault alot of us have is trying to be kind and encouraging to someone who might not have posted a really good post instead of giving advice, and some of us aren't as good as others at this hobby and aren't able to give advice or feel comfortable doing it. I feel that way frequently so I decline to comment at that time. Thanks for your good advice!

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  • what frustrates me is that while you comment that you find the images lately to be of a lesser quality, no one is commenting on what people need to do to improve their shots. I know that I am intimidated about placing any comments because I feel I am so new to photography that maybe I don't have a right to say anything.

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  • Jelly, I agree with you. I've been trying really hard lately not to comment unless I like something and if I see something that has an obvious problem I try to mention it gently. I like the fact that PH is a supportive place but several of us have talked for a long time that we want to learn more as well.

    - blow.....hard

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  • Birdie
    4
    I'd like to add that I think this should stay on the front page alot of people don't go to the right hand side bar and explore, esp those who should!

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  • Woooo Hoooo... Bravo .... a man with Balls...

    - Growing Up is Optional...

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  • I think it's important to for everyone to understand that there are a lot of novices here..including myself. I agree that there have been a lot of poor pictures posted, out of focus, etc...can we get Preview working?????? But speaking for myself, and maybe other novices, this is an amazing way to learn from the pro's. I feel like my eye is getting sharper, and my creative talent is being critiqued, and for me, that's very important. SG is painfully honest with some of the newbies....! And I think it's awesome!!! Maybe we should all be a little more honest.... Thanks for listening. P.S. Sorry about my boring last post!!!! ;->

    - Draggin around

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  • Penny
    7
    I do think that we need to not only say which shots are our favorites but say how the others can be made better. As far as the flower comment Tom you better watch it... ;0) I never get tired of taking them or seeing other peoples flower shots. That is one thing about this site. There is something on here for everyone. Naturally there are going to be shots one person doesn't like but another may. I think that who ever said about the emotions attached to a photo hit it on the head. When we post, we feel the emotion we felt when we took the shot. Others just see the shot. If we comment honestly on how a pic can be made better, it will make people clear the emotional fog attached to a pic away. So they see the picture itself. I don't mean that people need to slaughter other peoples shots. It can all be done nicely.

    - Smile

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  • Jump1ok
    2
    Photographica is a community photojournal. I personally define a community photojournal as a daily written and photographic record of (usually personal) experiences and observations by a group of people having a common interest. That common interest is the love for photography. You have made several valid suggestions on improving the quality of a photograph. Yet if we are to view photography as art then we all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see professional photographs taken by professional photographers published in national magazines that I find not only boring but often distasteful. The way this site is set up it is open to a wide variety of views, opinions, and styles. I respect your opinion. I do not, however, think that the quality of photographs is poor. They are part of each member's personal cathexis. Each post is a personal insight into each member's life. It is a sharing of thoughts, ideas, and emotions. If you feel the need to judge the quality of ones work it is your right. That is why I believe there is the feedback.

    - Misunderstood

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  • Gnome
    2
    Thank you, great post. I'm a total beginner and a newbie here, so I need all the help there is. I also don't own a good camera, so I just rely on artistic shots rather than sharp images. I agree with what you say and I will try the technique you mentioned here even with my lousy mini DV camcorder that is not really meant for photography. Thank you.

    - Office nut case

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  • loweho
    6
    I have no problem with the items listed except 1 and 8. I think rules like that are limiting. I was taught that no subject is boring... the artist is painting it that way. I think it would also apply to photography. I think anything can be made interesting. Plus it's too subjective, I like old barns and wood and would never find that subject boring whereas another person may hate them. As far as 8 goes I agree the best time of day to shoot is then but not the only time. You have to learn to shoot anytime. Van Gogh painted some of his masterpieces in the bright noon sun. Of course, that might have contributed to his state of mind. But other than these minor interptetations, I think your list is very valid and helpful. Also, for myself, I have no need or desire to ever sell another photo or painting. That doesn't mean I don't intend to try and improve but this is a hobby for me, an expensive one, but a hobby nonetheless. And this is a photojournal. Journal, being a personal record of occurrences, experiences, and reflections, kept on a regular. basis. As such, I don't expect everybody's shots of their outings, vacations, walks in the garden to be fine art. But they can be good photographs. Following these guidelines and learning when to break them eventually should help.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • I do post comments, but I've found myself shying away from posting constructive criticism comments due to the volume of postings and photos. I don't like the fact that I've been backing away from posting comments and feedback. Maybe this posting will atone for some of my sins.

    - One size does not fit all

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  • loweho
    6
    I didn't see your feedback till I posted Jump but I agree.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • To Each Their Own, That's What Makes This Ole World Spin...Shoot What You Enjoy And Have Fun Doing It...BTW, I Love Flowers And Love Seeing Them...HAPPY SHOOTING!!!!

    - NATURE RULES!!!

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  • Agreed, Tom! Well said. Just because you(whomever) take 15 shots of something doesn't mean that we need to see all of the shots. Just pick the best 1 or 2 and show those. Focus is my biggest pet peeve!

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  • Penny
    7
    Gnome you can give someone a great camera...but it all boils down to do they know how to use it. So it doesn't matter what kind you have. I was ready to throw my new camera in a lake when I first got it. But I am starting to get it figured out. So I don't want to throw it in the lake anymore. Plus I think there has been someone from here following me around in scuba gear....lol

    - Smile

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  • Anonymous Hero
    1
    Well Tom...feel free to fire away at my shots...your input would be greatly appreciated! Well that is all except today's posting :)

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  • loweho
    6
    If you guys think all the complaining is going to keep me from posting the next installment of zoo pics you're all wrong. I'll be the first to admit they are not art but they are a photojournal of our trip to the zoo.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • Jump1ok
    2
    I agree with your comments too Loweho, and this is exactly what community is all about......discussion and interaction

    - Misunderstood

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  • Penny
    7
    How many animals can there possibley be left Lowe? Kidding......I love all the zoo shots lately. They are all so fun!!

    - Smile

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  • Well Said Loweho And Jump...Keep The Zoo Pics Coming And The Flowers Too....NATURE RULES!!!!!!!!

    - NATURE RULES!!!

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  • loweho
    6
    I have 12 more left, out of about 300 or so, which you'll get tomorrow. I weed thru a lot not for artistic merit but because of digital and my lack of carrying my reading glasses. So I can see ok thru the viewfinder but I can't see the image on the lcd very well. I never know if I actually got anything till I get it downloaded.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • KayN
    5
    You made some valid points, Tom. But, like Penny said, there's always something for everyone on here. So, you don't like flowers; a lot of people (me included) do. Community is diverse....not all the same thing.....you gotta remember, it's summer time....flowers are in abundance and are gonna be posted. I know there's several folks on here who get tired of seeing certain things......we all have our "favorite" things to look at. I've learned to appreciate what is seen by others' eyes since I've been on this site.....I've grown to like what they see.....and, I've tried to emulate some of it. That's growth. We all need that. Sure, we have lots of newbies.....lots of folks with their first cameras.....and, we are all here to learn from one another. Not to put each other down. Some folks just don't take kindly to having their work scrutinized......they get hurt feelings. (I'm not in that majority) But, I respect people who are like that. Sometimes, I give negative comments, but not very often. More times than not, if I don't like a shot, I won't comment. If constructive criticism is asked for, I don't mind giving it, if I can. I've learned a lot from all y'all on here.....and hope to learn more. Even the bad shots help me learn. Getting off my soap box now.....thanks, Tom, for opening this discussion up......

    - Ms.N

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  • Thanks for this post Tom. I really appreciate everything everyone has said, and I agree with bits and pieces. I was once one of the ones who was getting tired of all the flowers, but I recently realized that *every* flower picture is *different*, and they all have something different about them that is unique to the photographer. I guess my point is that, while I do think the quality of photos has slightly decreased, every phot posted is still unique and interesting as well as typically enjoyable to look at. While I haven't had time to get out and shoot lately, I have enjoyed looking at everyone else's shots and commenting on them as much as I can. I also would like to say that I always want to comment constructive criticisms, but, as Kay said, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Thus, I do not. Therefore, I think that perhaps it would be a good idea for *anyone* who does not mind constructive critism and can take it like a man (or woman) should make a note that they would like the criticisms. As for the list though, I completely disagree with number 1, as we have seen Jessa make some otherwise boring subjects quite interesting. That's all I've got to say. I think...

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  • I give up. Past my bedtime. Can't get a comment over a sentence or two to post.

    - Good Kitty No More

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  • Tom, I agree with most of your original post, but like everyone else will agree, you are never going to find ANYONE that you will agree completly with when it comes to photos. Now having said that, I would like to say that although I love this site, and the people involved with it, I have found myself going to some other sites and posting more often because of the LACK of any constructive feedback. I want to get better at the art, and I don't think that you can get better at anything if people don't point out a diffrent point of view, weather you agree with it or not, it can in some sort of way help you in the future to be a better artist. So for future referance, if anyone comments on one of my photos, please don't sugar coat it, I not only want the feedback, good and bad, but I also need it.

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  • jam9663
    3
    Tom, I'm new here...I'm new to photography period (about 4 weeks old now), but it's something that I want to do and after stumbling upon this site I realized that this was probably the place where I could learn. It's tips, critiques and promptings like this that are going to help me. My postings are not done because I'm in a hurry or because I feel the need to post something, but rather in hopes that I get exactly this kind of instruction. I didn't realize that we were in "competition" with any other sites and that my initial, poor attempts is killing the reputation of this site. For that I appologize...But I can learn so much from you, from that Surfer Guy...and from so many of the other wonderful artists that are here... I was even thinking of intentionally posting some photos that I know are poor quality...just so I could ask what I could do differently. If there's a "back room" for this let me know...I'll post there. Again, I don't take exception to your suggestions...I welcome them...but don't exclude me until I meet "somebodys" criteria.

    - ain

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  • Mike H
    3
    Thats what this is all about, we shoot,post, then talk about it. If you get frustrated with the repetition, skip that post. If you don't like someones work skip it,i'm sure there will be someone who dose. In regards to this flower issue, I thought if I saw another flower shot i'd scream. After awhile i started enjoying them, and started shooting them.This new style gives ME pleasure, and also to some others. Lets keep in mind, i dont think that any of us are professionals. And if you are,i think for the sake of art you should be shareing your knowledge. I don't think anybody NEEDS TO APOLOGIES FOR THEIR STYLE/EQUIPMENT. I can't see, or condone anyone standing up & putting THEIR guidelines on the masses.

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  • loweho
    6
    Yeah, Tom, I don't want to come off like I'm disagreeing with what you're saying. I basically agree. I just think there are different kinds of posts. Not all have to be art but should meet some minimum level of technical skill, i.e. focused. Sometimes too just telling someone their shot is not focused isn't going to help them focus it. Maybe we need more basic tutorials... Or maybe we need to take an intentionally bad shot a week and let everyone pick all the flaws out. That way nobody's feelings would be hurt but they could learn by example. Just thoughts, but I think you took a step in the right direction.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • loweho
    6
    If nothing else Tom you've sparked a lot of comments. 8o)

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • Ah, but that's my point. If it's interesting, then it's not boring. I agree that everyday things can make interesting images, but you've got to treat them in an interesting and unique way. If you shoot an everyday item in an everyday way, it will be boring. What I'm suggesting is to stop for a moment before hitting the shutter release and ask yourself if this is an interesting image. If it isn't, then ask yourself what would make it more interesting and try to fix it. You can also ask yourself the first question before posting. Also, my comment on the flower shots had to do with the quantity of them. I believe flowers are incredibly beautiful. My point is that if we've been seeing a lot of one kind of shot lately, maybe a little variety would be in order.

    - One size does not fit all

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  • lilbit
    4
    There are some pros on here and they will help if you ask for it. As far as critiques go, make sure it's done about techinical issues, not about a subject you don't like. I'm glad Tom brought this up because it needed to be, yes this is a photo journal site but it's also a site for learning, if you're here to share mass quanities of family snapshots over and over I think you'd do better on snapfish.com. or some place else where you can upload your shots and tell your family to go check them out. If you don't want to learn anything don't ask for a critique because obviously you won't be changing your train of thought about photos. I just like people to think outside of their box, try new stuff even if it doesn't turn out well, keep trying, that's how we learn. And ask for help if you need it, I'm sure anyone on here would be willing to help out if they have an answer, or maybe they can suggest something else to try. Even the best photographers started out somewhere, no one starts out taking perfect shots. Learn your equiptment no matter what it is and use what you have.

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  • lilbit
    4
    I agree Tom, even a dandilion can be art if taken at the right angle with the right light instead of just standing over it and taking the picture.

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  • Thanks Tom for the suggestions. You have some great pointers that we all should at least experiment with including myself, but I also think that photography can be about expression and capturing a moment in time and sometimes those moments can be out of focus and lighting may not be the best. I personally got back into photography because of lomography.com...I just love the spontaneity...and lots of out of focused shots. You probably will not like this site. I have also stumbled upon many holga photographers that have out of focused shots on purpose: toycamera.com and check this photographer's gallery: http://www.pbase.com/ann_th/metropolis...well... may not be your taste...and I think that's the key....everyone has different tastes. That's why I love photographica.org...because there are so many diverse photographers and I have learned alot from many people and have been inspired by many...and the beauty of digital is that you can experiment without wasting $$$$ on film and processing....so why not shoot away....don't think too much....or you might miss out on a special moment...and if the photo comes out bad...well maybe not post it on photographica. I don't claim to be a great photographer...I just have a passion for it and love to see that passion in many photographers that post here :)

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  • loweho
    6
    A shot doesn't have to be in focus to be art either.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • Jump1ok
    2
    On this site it is the lack of feedback that lets me know that something is not right with my post. It is often up to my judgment to decide what that is. Yet often I see posts of wonderful photographs of horrible subjects that get little or no feedback. The viewers on this site seem to concentrate, often, on just technical merit while ignoring any attempt at artistic freedom. I have noticed that the members on this site are inclined toward the more refulgent photographs. There is more to photography than crisp bright shots. Perhaps we need to be asking ourselves more important questions than is the shot in focus. Why not ask "what is the photographer trying to convey?"

    - Misunderstood

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  • loweho
    6
    I think it's the intent. If I make a shot out of focus for a reason that's one thing but to do it because I don't know how to focus or I'm within the minimum focus range of my camera is another.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • Jump1ok
    2
    I wish I had a camera that allowed me to focus...

    - Misunderstood

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  • loweho
    6
    I'd agree with you Jump but I have to look up refulgent first.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • I believe it's SG's WOOOO HOOOO that matters the Most.... Wooo fricking Hoooo.....

    - Growing Up is Optional...

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  • Jump1ok
    2
    It's all right, surferguy your woo hoo has been... a little on the edge lately...I like that... keeps things interesting...

    - Misunderstood

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  • loweho
    6
    www.whogivesashit.com is parked for FREE at Sitelutions Sitelutions.com: "Solutions for Your Site. All in One Place." There's nothing there!

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • Just for the record....be painfully honest with me....I learn best that way...oooooohhhh, I hope this isn't gonna hurt too much!!!!!!!!!!! SG....for some reason...you're my hero.....

    - Draggin around

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  • mwhy
    1
    the good the bad and the ugly.. do your own thing.. answer to no one.. love yourself(and your pictures)..i like my art

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  • Anonymous Hero
    1
    55 comments....where there is no conflict there is usually no change.....good job Tom!

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  • The reason I started posting to this site was to get feedback on my photos, good or bad. I really appreciate the comments that have been given. Smalltown, I appreciate you telling me when my photos are crooked. Any comments from anybody is appreciated. Dish it out; I can take it.

    - GallivantingPhotographer

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  • Gnome
    2
    When I decided to be a member here and to start posting my pictures, I was generally happy to see a crowd of very nice, talented photographers giving comments. Whether they are constructive or not, even if it's simply just saying "I like the ___ picture the best" tells people what works for them, and after a few of those, you can sum up a pretty good statistics what works for most people. I chose this site because I found most people are here for good reasons, and are truely in love with photography. However, I know I don't have the right equipment, and thought people here wouldn't mind so much about that "as long as" I can still do something artistic. That's been my focus ever since. I'm not saying that my equipments will never improve, but it's an expensive hobby, and I'm brand new at this, I'd like to know what I can do, and want to do, before I select the right camera that's most suitable for me. Certainly that a good camera can't make everything work if the person doesn't know what he's doing, but can a lousy camera make things work? I don't know, but I'm going to find out. I can't blame all my blurry images on my camera, and that's why I warn people about them in the stories I wrote just so you can save some time to review the "better" photographs. In my own opinions though, the sharpest images don't always win my heart.

    - Office nut case

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  • chef009
    6
    Some good points Tom........sometimes I want to say "why did you shot that, or why did you post that"...so what can you say to someone that might just be testing the waters..in a way not to scare them off... I love some shots, and don't others...just like my own stuff....if we had nothing but great stuff here then I couldn't post...I did enyoy your thoughts.

    - With these Hands

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  • DGitAL
    1
    Well to me I dont mind if the photos blur or too bright or off center or whatever that make some members dislike it because everyone is learning to snap good pictures but what I dislike is, out of 8000 plus members and each one post 10 photos or more at onetime can be exhausting to see it all and put comments on it. In the end the novice get less comments than those favourite ones. So if we can minimise on the quantities of the post pics per day, it would be nice... I shy away to post mine..... :) and I dont know why......

    - Is my Heart, here?

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  • bugaboo
    4
    I wrote a little bit in response to this, hit OK and it didn't come up, So I am risking a quick repeat (shortened version) to say I love this site & the people and the photos even if some are not top notch. I know I have alot to learn. Hats off to the editors for giving us a place to share our hobby and interests! I agree, about too many in one post does make it hard to view especially when it is the same subject repeated.

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  • I agree on the focus comments. Wildman posted some cool shots the other day of his daughter riding her bike that were blurred to good effect. I'm talking about the shots that are out of focus not on purpose. I think we can all tell the difference. I'm also not talking about the Lomo shots. I agree they're not my cup of tea, but hey, that's okay. Joel Sartore made a statement regarding a famous photographer's work that I thought was pretty good. He said, that's jazz. Maybe you don't like jazz, but it's still good stuff. I think that kind of sums up my thoughts about the art of photography. Some of it's cool jazz and maybe I like rock & roll. My comments are not meant as feedback to the cool jazz photographers out there. They're intended for those trying to learn the craft of photography on the way to becoming an artist.

    - One size does not fit all

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  • Sopris
    4
    Thanks to all - I found the advice very helpful!

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  • Tom....those classes you are taking may benefit us all. I'm glad you clarified "boring". I was beginning to think you were making fun of my pictures of forks. By the way, why do we have to fire at Will? I kinda like him.

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  • KayN
    5
    I left out something in my comment last night....I have stepped on toes here in the past because I said things about certain photos that were posted that I didn't care for. I didn't comment on the photographic quality of the shots, I just blasted about the subject matter. I alienated a couple of people by doing that. I refrain from that now; if it's a shot who's content is something that I find offensive, if I can't look at the quality of the shot, I don't say anything. I have grown in that aspect. (I'd like to take this time to apologize to the ones whom I've offended in the past.) Yet another thing I've learned here; not only how to improve on my work, but to appreciate all aspects of this art form. I appreciate everyone who posts here and I love watching all of us "grow" in our photography. Someone up there mentioned about the amount of shots in a post. I'm really bad to overlook the posts that have too many shots in them. If I look at a couple of the images and they don't appeal to me, I pass that post up and go to the next one. I do agree on limiting your post to the best of the bunch; if the best is still a lot of shots, spread those shots out in several posts. Off my soapbox again........

    - Ms.N

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  • Mike H
    3
    Gnome; Don't let any old geezer with verbal diarrhea intimidate you, or make you feel inferior, about style/equipment. The only way anybody learns is by trial/error. Eventually YOU'LL start to realize your style & what equipment is right for you. If you need any help/pointers PM me. My doors always open.

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  • bugaboo
    4
    One more quick note from me also, I try to shoot alot of animals & birds in thier natural habitat, which doesn't give you time to "set" up a shot. By the time you do that the moment is usually gone. I almost never use a tripod because it slows down the opportunity to capture the shot. I always set it crooked anyway, even with the level. I have been practicing different ways to hold the camera to lessen the "shake". Any advice that more experienced wildlife shooters could give me would be greatly appreciated.

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  • KayN
    5
    Bug, I love shooting wildlife, too, and have the same trouble you do. I don't like to carry the tripod....and, I'm unsteady. I finally broke down and got me an IS lens....doesn't fix the problem totally, but it sure helps. And, I can't just squat down and balance on my feet...they're too wobbly like that....I have to set my butt down on the ground and brace my elbows against my legs.

    - Ms.N

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  • Mike H
    3
    KayN In the art world,it's not a good thing to be overly sensitive. I believe we do postings to get feed-back, good or bad. Hey, you might not like me/my style/my attitude, who cares, there will always will be somebody who dose. The pleasure that my "ART", yes "ART" brings to those & myself makes it all worthwhile Yes,I would LOVE to hear from those who find my style/work not to their taste, that's the only way to strengthen yourself

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  • I agree with a lot of what Tom posted, and commend him on getting us started on this subject. I for one, would not like to see Photograpica change too much. It's the diversity, humor, and friendliness that attracted me to the site to begin with. Are there photos posted I think aren't very good....sure. And unless that photographer asks for negative feedback, I usually don't give any. Are there posts that are heavy on photos...again yes, and more than likely I don't look at the whole post. Personally, I try to limit my posts to 4-8 pictures. I've been very pressed for time lately, so if a post doesn't interest me, or is too long, I go to the next one. If you want advice from me, you'll have to ask in your post.

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  • Speaking of asking for advice...is there a time limit for posting feedback? I had a much more eloquent and thought provoking response prepared than the one I just posted, but couldn't get it to send. It was shorter than Tom's original post, but took me about 20 minutes to organize my thoughts while typing. The only thing I can think of is I timed out. Oh, by the way Jump, I thank you for expanding my vocabulary. I don't think I had ever heard or seen the word refulgent before! It's good to stretch the mental muscles.

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  • A lot of interesting comments made here. Each of us have our own opinions. One thing I have noticed is that this site seems to run in circles. There have many great photographers come and go. I'm not sure why they quit posting. Boredom, lack of feedback, or maybe simply time to move on (I don't know). I've been posting for almost two years and have seen many people come and go. I'm sure the editors have seen many more. But this subject (or one similar) always seems to come up every 6-8 months. Each photographer has their own style. Many posting here have not developed one yet, but are testing the waters in search of their own personal style. I can identify many photographers simply by looking at their photos. Even when the subject is different, the style is the same. I intentionally try not to keep the same style, but I'm sure it still bleeds through. And as far as contructive criticism, many beg for it, but get angry when they receive it. I've seen many long angry posts over someone's "constructive criticism" sometimes resulting in people leaving the site to never return. A good photographer I'm not. A professional I'll never be. But, I'll always strive to improve and learn new things. I have no answers, but I doubt many of you will see this comment since I've been put on the "ignore list." (lol)

    - In tune with the camera.

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  • loweho
    6
    I think it's normal to get angry at criticism especially if you care for what you're doing but you have to step back and count to 10 or whatever and see if it has merit before you just give a knee-jerk response. Just because someone give's you advice doesn't mean it's good advice. But I think everyone here gives advice with good intentions.

    - Fickle Finger of F8

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  • I joined this site to get feedback on my photos. I know they aren't perfect, and I am trying to learn. I don't mind negative feedback, just so long as it is constructive. If you are going to tell me my picture sucks, then tell me how I can improve it. The feedback I give tends to be of the "how lovely, this one is my favorite" variety because I know zilch about photography. I don't feel qualified to offer much in the way of advice. I do know what I like, so I comment on it.

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  • Touche

    - Art is what Art is!

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  • Gnome
    2
    Mike H, thank you for all the support. It doesn't feel good that this post happened to be just when I started to post my photos here, so I felt some of it was certainly directed at me. I was just about to decide to leave simply because my style/equipments just don't compare, but I'll think about it again.

    - Office nut case

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  • Like so many of you I'm glad that Tom has opened up for comments on what we think makes Photographica so good and what could make it better. I have only posted a few times and was thrilled to get positive feedback on some of my shots, but was left wondering what was less good about the ones that didn't get any comments. In other words, I would also like some constructive negative comments. Having said that, I worry about giving others less than positive comments because it doesn't seem to be the culture here. It would be fine with me if that changed because it would help us learn.

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  • Savage
    2
    I have not been able to get this to come up after hitting the ok.. I saw that others have had the same problem.. last night I gave up trying and went to bed.. I am going to try again now after I send this.. so if someone knows a quick fix. that would help... lol

    - Can I SEEE ?

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  • Savage
    2
    I feel alot like Gnome here.. I am new to this site. I know I am one that has put 100000's of shot's on one post. I feel like a kid right now. I have got back into something that I enjoyed for many yr's. This site and the people and ANY feed back I get has helped me more than anyone could ever understand. I almost gave up on life 3yr's ago. I had just lost my mom to cancer and I am dealing with a bone diese that is makeing my bones die at a slow and painful pace. I am looking at life long joint replacement's. I am not trying to give you my life story here.. I just want to say this site has got me off my ASS and out with my little kodak easy share 3.1 pix. camera. I have had a great time and I get excited and can not make up my mind sometimes on what ones to post. I have noticed my self that I have put to many shot's on one post and Im backing down now. hope this makes since...

    - Can I SEEE ?

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  • debora
    4
    Please don't LEAVE...anyone. This is a learning website! We ALL want to improve. I know I do. I believe the long and short of it is...let's all try to be *aware* of what we shoot. Don't slap just any ole' thing up on the front page of Photographica. Put *your* best in a post...and make it your goal to improve. :) Group hug!

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  • TURBO
    7
    Change is good. It should be the desire of everyone to want to enhance and better their photos,in my oppinion. Iv'e learned alot from this site, and continue to challenge myself to take better pictures. So, yes... please... tell me what I've done wrong and how you think I may improve that certain picture. I intend to try to do the same. I get the feeling that alot of us don't feel qualified (if that's the right word) to offer suggestions to others, when we are strugling to improve as well.

    - Hmm...Blonde or Brunette?

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  • Savage
    2
    Group hug back to ya debora.. Im not going anywhere.. I am here to learn and to see life in a new light.. thanks to everyone here I have..

    - Can I SEEE ?

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  • Savage
    2
    Group hug back to ya debora.. Im not going anywhere.. I am here to learn and to see life in a new light.. thanks to everyone here I have..

    - Can I SEEE ?

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  • OddFish
    1
    I NEED CRITICISIM !!! It's one of the main reasons I subscribed because there were occasional tips being posted. And occasional was better than I was finding anywhere else. If I do post a "bad" photo (which if you look at several of my posts ;-), PLEASE anyone give me any ideas for improvement you have. Thank you Photographica for creating such a great site, and thank you tomnorth for broaching this subject!

    - Mask Off

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  • Everyone at Photographica is entitled to post whatever they want--blurry, nude, flowery, etc. It's truly a community website, and that's why I love it. If I wasn't an editor, I'd still be a member. That said, I have such a hard time keeping up anymore with posts that I've given up--and I used to, as recently as March, try to comment on EVERY post. It's not difficult to find something to say; there's just not enough time to do it. I'm not a fan of blurry photos--every time I go out to shoot I end up with some!--but I delete them. That's the hardest thing to do, I think--delete a photo. I now take several shots of each subject, and then view them in RAW before deciding on which one to keep. And I used to keep everything! One of my peeves on this site are the posts that state somewhere in them "this isn't that good, but here it is" or words to that effect--if even YOU are not happy with a shot, why post it? You don't have to post every day; I try to post my "best of" every couple of weeks and self-edit down to a very few. I heartily encourage everyone to read through the "Questions and Answers" and "Articles and Reviews" sections in the right-hand column because a number of members have posted great how-to articles. And I encourage folks, if they don't see what they are looking for, to write an article or PM a member they respect and ask them to. Articles like ClassyShots has posted are tremendous resources and have helped me big time--I'd love to see more of them. /soapbox

    - here and there

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  • Gnome
    2
    yeah, the reason why I say "they're not very good, but here they are" is because, I can't do better than that with the resolution of my camera. They are in fact good enough for me, but I know for a lot of people, they're just not up to the standard. So why do I post them? Hmm, because, they're probably the best I can do, for now anyway.

    - Office nut case

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  • Pablo57
    6
    Thanks Tom for your learned, helpful advice. I copied it into my log book to reread and study. Also thanks for sparking so many comments.

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  • Savage
    2
    Gnome I think it is great that you get the images like you do from your cam corder...

    - Can I SEEE ?

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