You're full of it.  I'm still not as happy here as I used to be--still kind of like Flickr better.  But what I like about here is the way it's structured.  It is different from Flickr and that's fine.  We started going funky here when the forums were set up and people did start breaking into groups and factions.  We weren't allowed to play in individual posts anymore and draw people in and meet new people.  And that created a schism.  I'd just like to see the things that are here work consistently.  Sometimes I can comment, sometimes I can't.  Getting consistency would please me.

Leave it alone.

Smalltown:

Interesting.  My idea could indeed splinter things more.  It is a delicate balance though.  When everybody gets access to the front page, you can only go so far before the front page gets so busy that it isn't rewarding to post.  I keep trying to find ways to keep posting a rewarding experiance.  I tried voting, but that was a huge mistake.  Now that I've taken away voting, I can already see that we are growing again and will soon be back to where we were prior to voting - two pages a day.

I'm toying with groups because I think that it would scale with the growth.  Once a group got big, it's members would probably splinter anyway and instead of going to a new site, they'd just say "fine, I'll start my own group here on Photographica and leave you guys to your selves".

In other words, I think what you say is true.  Forums in a way broke people into groups and factions.  But I'll challenge you and say that as any group grows, it starts to loose cohesion and splinters anyway.  The million dollar question is and always was, what do you do about it :-)

Very good point though!  That is why if this idea were to be implemented, how the front page is structured would be key to its success.

PS: Yes consistency would please me too.  After all the money is in the details.  It ain't easy though; I'm only one guy with very limited time.  Some of those details are really tought to iron out too!

Smalltown, two reasons.  First, it would put a strain on the servers and make the page load slower.  Second, a good 50% of the traffic never sees the front page anyway.  They see the website through things like my.yahoo.com, which only shows 5 stories :-) 

That actually begs another quesetion... what the hell do people with my.yahoo.com see under my idea?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that in the olden days, each person had the ability to set the number of front page pictures they wanted to see. So while the standard was 30, it was possible for you to set your own front page to 45 if you desired.

Hmmm... I forgot we used to be able to choose the number of stories shown per page.  I probably took that out thinking nobody used it.

Maybe I should let that "best shot" thing cook for a while and see what happens.  Perhaps integrate it a little tighter into the site..  I keep meaning to integrate the forums a bit better as well.  Might be a better use of my time.

In your minds eye, would everyone be able to see the various groups, and read the post/comment, but only the members of the group could post stories?  Or would it be the exclusive domain of the group?

Everybody sees every group, post and comment.  Anybody could create a group.  Initially, everybody could join every group as well.  While it would be technically easy to do things like "invite only", I'd probably keep it off this website.  Initially, I'd probably show all group posts to the front page and if things kick off, I'd have to invent a way to sift through group content and select what goes on the front page (this part is what would be critical to the success of my proposal).

First and foremost...DON"T LOSE THE "PERSONAL FEEL"!!!

This is always the goal.  I've experimented with various ways to let the site grow and keep this.  Some failed (voting), some succeed (Hopefully the Best Shot).

Some other ideas I have:

• Improve RSS support so you can subscribe to a feed with comments for a story.  This way you can track comments easier.
• Threaded comments?  At least a single level deep.  I used to poo-poo this, but I'm starting to come around to the idea.
• As I said above, better forum integration.  Dunno what this means really.  When you get right down to it, what is the difference between the forums and this whole "group" idea?
• Add a feature supporting magic.  Only then can we solve this problem.

Bottom Line? It ain't easy, being cheezy!

Flickr is a black hole. It is so large and vast that when a photo is posted there, it just becomes another grain of sand being sucked in. At least here, a person can feel a little special by being on the front page for a short amount of time.

I would like to see the users of Photographica have total complete control over their accounts. Let people delete and edit their stories and photographs anytime after they post.

I think, if you implement groups as you've described in your original post, then you risk splintering your user base into a number of tiny segregated factions and you loose the 'community' feel that makes this site work.  Groups work on Flickr because it's a huge place, but a lot of flickr groups just seem to be dumping grounds for people to post a photo, in hopes of getting comments, but those people never really participate in the group discussion threads or even comment on other photos in the group pool, so how is that really a cohesive 'group' and do you want to see that happen here?  (We have enough problems getting newcomers to participate and comment on other people's stories when they're all in the same place on one page.)  If you start letting people create and join groups, it will just become the same as flickr, where you have one person who is a member of a large number of groups, who posts the same story to every group, without thought to what the group may be about and without any intention of ever really 'participating' in the groups where he or she is dumping his stories.  I wouldn't really want to be a member of several groups and go to each group and see all the same stuff.....

I like what you did with the 'my best shot' forum.  It's a great way to segregate the serious stories that people really want feedback on from the non-serious, fun, snapshot stuff that we all post from time to time.  Perhaps you can create more of these type of forums, geared towards different types of specialized photography (black and white forum, color forum, fun with photoshop forum, macro forum are some examples that I can think of off the top of my head) or different types of subject matter (flowers, animals and nature, landscape, street, studio work, are some examples) - these are the types of things that flickr groups get created to specialize in.  Make the new forums the same type of format as the front page, where you can post an actual story, not like the discussion forums we have here now, where you can't easily post a story.  Limit the number of forums that any one individual story can be published in. If someone wants a new forum for a particular subject, all they have to do is PM an editor.  But everyone is welcome in all the forums, you don't have to join them.  If, for example, you don't want to see anymore macro flower shots, well, don't go to that forum....

As to the question of what you would do with the front page under such a system, well, why not break it up into small frames that would feature rotating individual forums and even individual photographers - in other words, break the page up into a number of square boxes that sort of look the same as the feed I see on my yahoo, with each box featuring a different forum each day, or each week.  Put the challenge stories into one of those boxes and maybe do something like a 'featured photographer of the week' kind of deal.  Make all the rest of the forums easily accessible in a list on the side of the main page. But keep the discussion types of forums, too, because people always have questions about stuff and  sometimes people like to talk about stuff that has nothing to do with anything photographic....(that's the 'community' aspect of this site that I really like)

Anyhow, just my 2 cents.....

haha... Fuzzy, you basically just described my idea and came up with the exact same set of issues I did :-)  Only in your proposal, I create the groups and in mine, you create them.  Or something.  I dunno anymore. 

I would like to see the users of Photographica have total complete control over their accounts. Let people delete and edit their stories and photographs anytime after they post.

Yes.  This is a huge thing (always has been).  Thankfully it is getting the the point where the technical issues involved are becoming "easy".  By technical, I mean "You can't delete an image used in a story (even though it is currently broken)".

There are still social issues to work out with deletion.  For example should somebody be able to delete a story that was used to kick off a bi-weekly challenge? I'd say, hell no!

I've already gotten over my initial resisance to letting people delete normal stories, even though I think it is rude and wish people would not as it kinda disses anybody who bothered to comment on the story.  But if somebody wants to be rude and delete their highly commented story, so be it (maybe put a "User has deleted stories in the past, so dont waste your time commenting on this new one cause they might delete it too" in their profile).  I'd much prefer a way to anonymise stories and images so the content doesn't get lost, only the associations do.

But now I digress :-)

"It ain't easy, being cheezy!"   Just ask Chester.

Who do you think sponsors the site  (grin) :-)

I think Fuzz is headed somewhere--as in, instead of "groups", have separate pages for different subjects.  I could avoid "flowergraphica" (thank god) but I could look at a page that only had black and white.  We used to have options of where to post a story/photo but that disappeared (or I lost it).  But the users would decide where their photo would go:  Front page (general photography), snapshots, macro, etc.  It would probably be advisable not to get too many categories but I think the girl has an idea!

And by the way, let me assure the old guys and anyone else who doubts......smalls is all woman. 

On flickr I have four groups I actively view slides shows of and I actively post photos to those groups.  Those groups would not exist here or I would be the lone member of those groups, Coney Island, NYC what the tourist don't see, Guess where NYC and Gary Winogrand Canted Moments. 

I find on flickr the more exposure comes from tags and I use that alot.

Whatever Fuzzy1 says, I'm with her 100%. 

I'd like to add the site is extremely easy to use now, thank you Cory and everyone else.

You know how we do the Picture of the year, well those could be the sections but still have the front page and I like the idea of letting me decide how many stories are on my forn page.

Stick pretty close to what we have now. I do not think groups is the idea. We don't need glitter and glitz, we just need good old fashion interaction...be it in the posts or in the forums.

Totally off topic...Are there or where there any "Photographica" Hats? Being of the Large economy size Tshirts are not an option, but I like wearing ball caps and would love to get one if it were available.

Have to agree with Turbo, Smalls, SG, Blizzard...and the other coolcats.....Just have the things here work. If people want to search out stories they can click on to a persons account and check them out...... The big deal as I see it is to make things easier for people to feel good about sharing or contributing in one way or the other.....easier isen't always better.

I for one will take Smalls word for it.....she's worth believing.

My two-cents worth:  What Chef said!  I tried to like the Flickr site, but couldn't bring myself to post a picture.  All the browsing I did, good and mediocre pictures, had a list of people who "commented"  nothing more than "like it" or "nice shot" , each followed by two inches of the neon, whirly-gigs and promos for some other group to look at. 

What got me here, and keeps me here, is gradually getting to know the posters and what they photograph, and their 'style', which gives me insight into their comments and critiques on MY stuff.  It sounds like we would become a tiny, lame Flickr wanna-be site.  I want to know who is posting the comment, and I want comments from the whole family - those who like or don't like flowers, black and white, post-processing, and all the other stuff, not just limited to a narrow few who choose to view "b/w, dogs playing with frisbees, on a Sunday, natural light only".

Can't we all just get along . . . with what we have, only have it work well all the time?

How about if I comment simply to help this post get closer to 50 comments?

;-)

I would say a big no to the "most popular first" system. There's a place that does that already, it's called deviantART. ;) It helps to expose the best work but it tramples on the people who still need some exposure to improve.

I would think just show everything, or we run the risk of losing what actually makes this site attractive. Unless it was only me who wanted this as a place I could come to actually get comments and insight from people when I'm not the best photographer. XD

The groups sound like an interesting idea though. It might be worth a try, although it is risky as has been said.

Hey, PY...How you doing?

Hate the groups on flickr.  I post there only hoping I'll still get some input from the long lost members I miss from here.  I like fuzzy's idea and agree the groups wouldn't really help but make this a "lame flickr wanna-be."

However, if you got the welcome letter up I might try and start working on some tutorials for the overall use of the site.  I've had several PMs about how to get popups in stories or how to enter a challenge.  I don't mind writing them... I just need an intiative to do so.  It is easier to use, but some people still have problems figuring some things out.

I had more cents to add, but I think I just found a hole in my pocket.  Maybe I can backtrack and find it again.